New Vrindaban Brijabasi Spirit

A conversation between Srila Prabhupada and some of his disciples as they tour Madhuban & a Vegetable Garden in New Vrindaban – June 22nd, 1976.

Thanks to Vanipedia for the transcript.

Kirtanananda: This is our farm up in here. Lord Jagannatha is staying there now while He is ill. Our big Lord Jagannatha is going to Cleveland tomorrow for Ratha-yatra festival.

Prabhupada: Oh. It is the first time?

Kirtanananda: Yes. They have a big cart, and they will go down the main street.

Prabhupada: How far it is?

Kirtanananda: How far to Cleveland? About 130 miles. [break] Our land is on the left side.

Prabhupada: Oh. So this land, how you are utilizing it?

Kirtanananda: We are growing a kind of grass, sudan grass. Then we cut that and put it in the tall silos for the cows to eat in the winter.

Prabhupada: In the winter this is all covered with snow?

Kirtanananda: Most of the winter not. We get maybe six inches during the whole winter. [break] …a lot of land now that’s not our land. We are farming a lot of land now that is not our land. We lease it, or do it on shares.

Prabhupada: Oh. What is the share, half?

Kirtanananda: Sometimes half, more likely a third, sometimes a quarter. We like that.

Prabhupada: Quarter for the proprietor?

Kirtanananda: Yes. There are many people that have a lot of land, and they don’t want to do it themselves. But the hay has to be cut every year, otherwise the trees come, and then the land degenerates. So they like to have it cut. [break]

Prabhupada: …land can be cultivated also?

Kirtanananda: Yes, it could be. It would be very good land. [break] …our own lumber now also. Cutting our own trees.

Prabhupada: That is the nature’s way. You cut the lumber and make cottage, and the land is clear, then cultivate, get you food, and cows, give them grass.

Kirtanananda: [break] …woods around here.

Prabhupada: Why it is there is no fog here? Due to the trees? It is clear.

Kirtanananda: There’s a river up that way, and I think there’s more fog up that—it’s always like that, I don’t know exactly why. [break]

Prabhupada: …in the jungle?

Kirtanananda: Deer.

Prabhupada: Deer only.

Kirtanananda: Few fox.

Prabhupada: Fox also. And fox, they come to our temple?

Kirtanananda: No.

Prabhupada: No. Fox, they eat men? No.

Kirtanananda: Not usually. Only if they get sick, rabies, then they’ll attack. They eat rabbits and rodents.

Prabhupada: Deer also?

Kirtanananda: Deer are vegetarian, they eat grain.

Prabhupada: No.

Devotee (1): Fox will eat the deer?

Kirtanananda: Oh, I don’t think.

Devotee (1): Saw a lynx, a big cat.

Prabhupada: Eh?

Devotee (1): A lynx, a small cat.

Kirtanananda: Something like a little wildcat.

Prabhupada: They eat, they’re eaten by the fox?

Kirtanananda: They’ll eat the fox. They’re very rare though.

Prabhupada: Jivo jivasya jivanam.

ahastani sahastanam
apadani catus-padam
phalguni tatra mahatam
jivo jivasya jivanam

The handless animal is the food for the animal with hands. This is the beginning of life. Uncivilized man eats the animals. Apadani catus-padam: these grass, plants, they are for the catus-padam, four-legged. Cows, deer, goats, they eat. And those who are weak, they are for the strong. In this way, this is the nature’s way. Jivo jivasya jivanam. One life, a living entity is food for another. (dogs barking) Immigration department. (laughter) We have got passport. (laughter) That’s all right.

Kirtanananda: This is a dog’s business.

Prabhupada: Dog’s business. Without any fault, they’ll chastise. We have no fault, still they are chastising. Durlabham manusam janma. You have got this independence. Little independence, more than the animals.

Kirtanananda: It’s the end of the road, so I think we can turn here.

Prabhupada: Hare Krsna. [break]…. in the kitchen, this wood or gas?

Kirtanananda: Both. Mostly wood.

Prabhupada: There are so many jungles, we can use wood.

Kirtanananda: Actually we like it better.

Prabhupada: Oh, yes, it is better, nice.

Kirtanananda: But it is a little dirty. Unless you change it to charcoal, there was always some smoke. This is not ours. Our property comes down this way, but not on this corner. [break] …land, Prabhupada, and they say overpopulation.

Prabhupada: In the beginning, I protest against this assertion, there is overpopulation. I never admitted. Perhaps you know.

Kirtanananda: Yes.

Prabhupada: There is no overpopulation. If the Americans allow the Chinese and the Indians to come, they can develop all these un…. “No, this is our land, you cannot come,” immigration, gow gow. [break] …creek is pure water?

Kirtanananda: Yes, the water around here is very nice. We can dam it and have big lake.

Prabhupada: If there is no foam that means it is nice water. Foam means sinful water.

Devotee (2): In Bhagavad-gita, Lord Krsna explains that the soul is situated in the body but he’s not the performer of activities. In other words, he does nothing within the body, and yet…

Prabhupada: Where it is said he does nothing?

Devotee (2): There’s a verse that says the self-realized soul, when he sees the activities of evacuation or moving or so many things, he understands that it is the body alone which is working. So how is it that we see in a dead body, when the soul has gone, there are none of these activities? So it appears, though, the soul is the principle in the body that is performing all these activities. Otherwise, how is it that the dead body, when the soul is gone, is also not carrying on so many functions?

Prabhupada: So long the soul is there, the activities of the body are there. Otherwise not. That is explained—habit. Knowingly, unknowingly. Just like a child is passing urine. He does not know that he’s passing, but the body’s action is going on like that. But if the child is dead, there will be no more passing. Like that. So long the body is alive, things are happening automatically. Just like this tree, so long it is alive the leaves are coming out, the flowers are coming out, although the trees have no developed consciousness. (pause) In Bhagavatam we see that when Nanda Maharaja felt some disturbances from the demons, they decided to change the place. And they immediately, from Gokula, they immediately went to Vrndavana. But we don’t find anything that they had to take permission. Hmm?

Kirtanananda: That’s right.

Prabhupada: So that means formerly this was the system. If there is any vacant land, one can go and live there. There’s no question of permission. When you live there and you make your professional activities, then the king will come, take little tax.

Kirtanananda: That used to be the system here. They called it “homesteaders.” If you would go and make you home there, you could have the land.

Prabhupada: That is not for the foreigners. If some Chinese men or Indian want to come…

Kirtanananda: It used to be. But not anymore for anybody.

Prabhupada: Just see. Why?

Kirtanananda: Because it has become very profitable for people to keep it. Because people are making money on it now.

Prabhupada: Money they must make; otherwise, why they should come? But what is the objection? Just like in the marketplace, still, in India, the system is, the marketplace, anyone can go and sell his goods, and when he’s selling, the proprietor takes some contribution. Not that he has to take permission. He’s selling there, that’s all right, “Give me some…, a little contribution.” The king has the right to tax for maintenance.

Devotee (3): Srila Prabhupada, when we take that which is not our quota, by using, wasting a lot of clean water, how is that perfect and complete, om purnam ? How are things still perfectly complete even when we’re wasting and destroying it?

Prabhupada: Why you should waste? Wasting is not allowed. [break] …our car?

Kirtanananda: No, it belonged to the man who formerly owned the property.

Prabhupada: So how it is broken?

Kirtanananda: Some vandals. There’s no one living here, he just left it. (in car:) This farm is for sale now.

Prabhupada: There is no limit of purchasing?

Kirtanananda: Only limit is money.

Prabhupada: No, I mean to say as in India there is limit, that you…

Kirtanananda: No, government puts no limit.

Prabhupada: There is no land, therefore there is limit. [break]

Kirtanananda: Cauliflower, peas, beets, carrots, lettuce, spinach…

Prabhupada: Potato?

Kirtanananda: Potato, broccoli,

Prabhupada: Broccoli? What is that?

Kirtanananda: It is something like cauliflower.

Pus?a Krsna: It’s that green vegetable, Srila Prabhupada, that’s like cauliflower.

Prabhupada: Cabbage?

Kirtanananda: Cabbage, peppers.

Prabhupada: That is nice, so many. Tomato.

Kirtanananda: But most things are not yet fructified. This is early in our season. Peas will be ready just shortly. Lettuce is ready.

Prabhupada: Vegetables, ghee, milk, wheat, then what do you want more?

Kirtanananda: The wheat is just about ready for harvest.

Prabhupada: No, I mean to say we can grow all these things and eat very nicely. Where is economic problem? Yajnad bhavati parjanyo parjanyad anna-sambhava?. [break]

Kirtanananda: It’s full of cow stool and urine.

Prabhupada: Accha, for fertilizer?

Kirtanananda: Yes, fertilizer. Nothing is wasted.

Prabhupada: You can make gas also.

Kirtanananda: Yes. That was originally an oil tank. (end)